The Centrality of God the Father & Jesus Christ
1 … I will love thee, O LORD [JEHOVAH / JESUS], my strength.
2 The LORD [is] my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;
my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler,
and the horn of my salvation, [and] my high tower.
3 I will call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised:
so shall I be saved from mine enemies.
Preface: Why would we even question to whom the Latter-day Saints give their worship? The question arises in part because the LDS believe in a Godhead with three distinct personages: God the Father (sometimes equated with the Hebrew term “Elohim”), Jesus Christ (sometimes equated with the Hebrew term “Jehovah” or “Yahweh”), and the Holy Ghost. These beings are not unified as to substance and individuality, but they are unified in all other ways. Jesus even can assume all the titles of God the Father, and may be called God and Father. However, is it possible that we (the LDS) direct our worship to God the Father, excluding his Son, Jesus?
The official Church magazine, the Ensign, in the March 2008 issue devoted its entire text to the theology of Christ. The answer to the question is clear, and it is pervasive throughout the text. Here are some sample quotations [emphasis mine]:
“Who is Jesus Christ?” by President Boyd K. Packer
“Humbly I lay claim upon the Atonement of Christ. I find no shame in kneeling down in worship of our Father and His Son. For agency is mine, and this I choose to do!”
(See: March 2008 Ensign, p. 19).
“We testify of Christ" by President Gordon B. Hinckley
“He [Jesus] is the central focus of our worship. He is the Son of the living God, the Firstborn of the Father, the Only Begotten in the flesh.” (See: March 2008 Ensign, p. 7).
“He lives: The Testimony of Latter-day Prophets” by President Heber J. Grant
“Jesus Christ is literally the Son of God, the Only Begotten in the flesh. He is our Redeemer, and we worship him.” (See also: March 2008 Ensign, p. 10).
“The Living Christ: The Testimony of the Apostles”
“We testify that He will someday return to earth. “And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together” (Isaiah 40:5). He will rule as King of Kings and reign as Lord of Lords, and every knee shall bend and every tongue shall speak in worship before Him.” (See also: March 2008 Ensign, p. 47).
Please do not misunderstand. The Latter-day Saints did not need a March 2008 magazine to clarify their object of worship. The object of worship has been clear in this LDS Church since its founding in 1830.
In LDS scripture there are several passages that suggest we worship the Father in the name of Christ. For example [emphasis mine],
2 Nephi 25:16
16 … that day shall come that they shall believe in Christ, and worship the Father in his name, with pure hearts and clean hands … .
Jacob 4:5
5 Behold, they believed in Christ and worshiped the Father in his name, and also we worship the Father in his name. And for this intent we keep the law of Moses, …which is a similitude of God and his Only Begotten Son.
D&C 20:29
29 And we know that all men must repent and believe on the name of Jesus Christ, and worship the Father in his name, and endure in faith on his name to the end, or they cannot be saved in the kingdom of God.
D&C 59:5
5 ,,, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy might, mind, and strength; and in the name of Jesus Christ thou shalt serve him.
D&C 93:19
19 I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness.
The passages quoted above actually are not very confusing. However, Elder Bruce R. McConkie stirred up the dust and made some wonder. The following statement was NOT made in General Conference, and I regard it as his opinion only.
Bruce R. McConkie BYU Devotional, March 2, 1982
1. We worship the Father and him only and no one else.
We do not worship the Son, and we do not worship the Holy Ghost. I know perfectly well what the scriptures say about worshipping Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely different sense--the sense of standing in awe and being reverentially grateful to him who has redeemed us. Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the Creator.
He does follow this unique statement with the following:
2. We love and serve both the Father and the Son.
In some technical sense, Elder McConkie may be correct. God is at the top of the Godhead. However, I am just a mere mortal and it is hard for me partial out my reverence within the Godhead. Fortunately, there is much counter evidence from both scripture and General Conference talks to suggest Christ should be worshipped as well. In fact, he often contradicted himself, or at least used less precise language. It is easy to find writings where Elder McConkie suggests we LDS do in fact worship Christ.
Take, for example, the following which I think is true:
Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.848 WORSHIP [emphasis mine]
The Father and the Son are the objects of all true worship. "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." (Matt. 4:10; Luke 4:8; Ex. 34:14; Mosiah 18:25; D. & C. 20:17-19.) No one can worship the Father without also worshiping the Son. "All men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him." (John 5:23.) It is proper to worship the Father, in the name of the Son, and also to worship the Son. "Believe in Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out." (2 Ne. 25:16, 29.)
I just do not buy into the notion that there are two forms of worship: a “Worship(1)” reserved for the Father and a “Worship(2)” a lower form of worship, for the Savior. To what extent is our awe and reverence of Jesus NOT worship? What is worship? I define the term as the following: “Recognizing somebody as divine and showing respect by making acts of devotion.”
I am just a mere mortal. While I can imagine the Father and the Son as distinct personages, I cannot distinguish them much further. How does one distinguish personages that are ONE in purpose? My mind is far too limited to engage in fractionating the Godhead much beyond making them separate personages. True, members of the Godhead have separate functions: we pray to the Father; Jesus is the mediator; and the Holy Ghost provides guidance.
Consider the following scriptural passages in the context of the above questions. They strongly indicate how we worship Christ [emphasis mine]:
2 Nephi 25:29
29 And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out.
1 Nephi 11:24
24 And after he had said these words, he said unto me: Look! And I looked, and I beheld the Son of God going forth among the children of men; and I saw many fall down at his feet and worship him.
3 Nephi 11:17
17 Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him.
3 Nephi 17:10
10 And they did all, both they who had been healed and they who were whole, bow down at his feet, and did worship him; and as many as could come for the multitude did kiss his feet, insomuch that they did bathe his feet with their tears.
D&C 76:20-23
20 And we beheld the glory of the Son, on the right hand of the Father, and received of his fulness;
21 And saw the holy angels, and them who are sanctified before his throne, worshiping God, and the Lamb, who worship him forever and ever.
22 And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all which we give of him: That he lives!
23 For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father--
Consider the following General Conference passages in the context of the above controversies. They strongly indicate how we worship Christ [emphasis mine]:
G. B. Hinckley, “What Are People Asking about Us?” Ensign, Nov. 1998, 70
Are we Christians? Of course we are Christians. We believe in Christ. We worship Christ. We take upon ourselves in solemn covenant His holy name. The Church to which we belong carries His name. He is our Lord, our Savior, our Redeemer through whom came the great Atonement with salvation and eternal life.
Proclamation of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (April 6, 1980) [emphasis mine]
We call upon all men and women to forsake evil and turn to God; to work together to build that brotherhood which must be recognized when we truly come to know that God is our Father and we are his children; and to worship him and his Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, the Savior of mankind. In the authority of the Holy Priesthood in us vested, we bless the seekers of truth wherever they may be and invoke the favor of the Almighty upon all men and nations whose God is the Lord, in the name of Jesus Christ, amen [CR, Apr. 1980, pp. 75-77; see also Ensign 10 (May 1980): 51-53].
Consider the following authoritative book passages in the context of the above controversies. They strongly indicate how we worship Christ:
Dallin H. Oaks, Pure in Heart, p.126 - 127 [emphasis mine]
We worship God the Father, the great Elohim. Though there be "gods many, and lords many" (1 Corinthians 8:5), his position is unique. He is the Father of our spirits, the creator of all things, and the author of our salvation. God taught Moses: "Mine Only Begotten is and shall be the Savior, for he is full of grace and truth; but there is no God beside me" (Moses 1:6). As the object of our worship, God the Eternal Father "stands supreme and alone." ("Only One God to Worship," Improvement Era [April, 1912], 15:483--85; also in Messages of the First Presidency, ed. James R. Clark [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1970], 4:27071. See D&C 20:17-19.) The Apostle Paul declared: "To us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him" (1 Corinthians 8:6).
We also worship the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Great Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel (see Bruce R. McConkie, The Promised Messiah [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1978], pp. 562-66). At the direction of God the Father, the Son accomplished the work of creation, spoke with the prophets, and completed the glorious work of redemption. We worship him as our Savior and our Redeemer. The scriptures sometimes refer to him as the Father, because when we have claimed the benefit of his atoning sacrifice by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel and he has redeemed us from our sins, we become his spiritually begotten sons and daughters (Mosiah 5:7-8; 15:1012).
Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol.2, GOD THE FATHER [emphasis mine]
GOD THE FATHER. The combination of the title "God" and the appellative "Father" specifies the Father of Jesus Christ and of all spirits. Latter-day Saints worship God the Father and Jesus Christ and pray to the Father in the name of Christ as directed by the Lord (D&C 88:64).
Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Vol.2, JESUS CHRIST [emphasis mine]
Latter-day Saints center their worship in, and direct their prayers to, God the Eternal Father. This, as with all things--sermons, testimonies, prayers, and sacraments or ordinances--they do in the name of Jesus Christ (2 Ne. 25:16; Jacob 4:4-5; 3 Ne. 18:19; D&C 20:29; Moses 5:8). The Saints also worship Christ the Son as they acknowledge him as the source of truth and redemption, as the light and life of the world, as the way to the Father (John 14:6; 2 Ne. 25:29; 3 Ne. 11:11).
It is pointless and most confusing for Latter-day Saints to say anything that amounts to “We don’t worship Christ, only God the Father.” How can we NOT worship Christ? How do we give less worship to Christ than the Father?
Again, I conclude that we worship God the Father in the name of Jesus. This means that we cannot be saved by mere belief in some generic version of God. The God we worship stands for specific principles that are saving principles. We also worship Christ, who atoned for our sins, the creator of this world, and who is one-in-purpose with the Father.
Bruce R. McConkie gives a most amazing account of what it means to have the deepest form of worship:
Bruce R. McConkie, The Promised Messiah, p.566 -- 568 [emphasis mine]
It is our purpose now to ask how we worship the Lord, be he the Father or the Son or both. The forms of worship are many. Prayers, sermons, testimonies, gospel ordinances, attendance at church meetings, doing missionary service, visiting the fatherless and the widows in their afflictions, and a great many other things are all part of pure religion and true worship. But there is a way of worship that includes all these and yet is more than any one of them alone or all of them together. That way is made known to us in one of our deepest and most profound revelations.
We have in the first chapter of the Gospel of John an account of our Lord's status as the Word of God, as the Creator of all things, and as the life of the world. This account leads into the ministry and experience of John the Baptist in preparing the way before the Lord. In section 93 in the Doctrine and Covenants, we have a partial revelation of what is called "John's record," which deals with and adds to this same account and which includes what the Baptist saw after he immersed the Lord Jesus in Jordan. Clearly the original account of these doings was written by John the Baptist, portions of it were quoted by John the Beloved in his gospel, and added portions (with more yet to come) were revealed to Joseph Smith in modern times. Our present chief interest is in some of the things revealed anew in our day.
Our revelation says: "And I, John," meaning John the Baptist, "bear record that I beheld his glory, as the glory of the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth, even the Spirit of truth, which came and dwelt in the flesh, and dwelt among us." To our Lord's cousin and kinsman the heavens had been opened. He had seen and knew of the glory and greatness of the One whose forerunner he was and of whom he testified: "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." (John 1:29.) "And I, John, saw that he received not of the fulness at the first, but received grace for grace," the newly revealed data continues, "And he received not of the fulness at first, but continued from grace to grace, until he received a fulness; And thus he was called the Son of Gods because he received not of the fulness at the first." At this point John tells of seeing the heavens opened and the Holy Ghost descending upon Jesus, and tells of hearing the voice out of heaven say: "This is my beloved Son."
Then comes the climax of John's account, a climax that is in large measure the reason why the whole recitation was revealed. It says: "And I, John, bear record that he received a fulness of the glory of the Father. And he received all power, both in heaven and on earth, and the glory of the Father was with him, for he dwelt in him." This ends the renewed setting forth of what was known anciently.
Then the Lord says to Joseph Smith: "I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness." Receive of his fulness, the fulness of the glory of the Father! Receive all power in heaven and on earth! Of those who so obtain it is written: "They shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, . . . which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. Then shall they be gods. . . . Then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them." (D&C 132:19-20.) Eternal life is to receive the fulness of the Father; it is to be like him; it is to live as he lives; it is the greatest of all the gifts of God; it is the object and end of our existence. Then the revelation sets forth this promise: "For if you keep my commandments you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified in me as I am in the Father; therefore, I say unto you, you shall receive grace for grace." (D&C 93:6-20.)
As Jesus received the fulness of the Father, so must we. Because Jesus personifies for us the fulness of the Father, we may conclude the following: We love Christ, and we worship Christ as our Savior.
The gospel distinguishes the Father and the Son as separate and distinct entities or personages. Latter-day Saints sometimes distinguish between the Father and the Son using the Hebrew terms Elohim and Jehovah, respectively. These terms are fine as long as we realize that there are a lot of ambiguous usages in the scriptures and in our gospel literatures. The reasons the lines are blurry is because Jesus can take upon him all the names of the Father. Jesus is the God with whom we communicate. Consider the following:
Joseph Fielding Smith (1954 / 1988), Doctrines of Salvation, Compiled by Bruce R. McConkie. vol. 1, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, p. 27.
All revelation since the fall has come through Jesus Christ, who is the Jehovah of the Old Testament. In all scriptures, where God is mentioned and where he has appeared, it was Jehovah who talked with Abraham, with Noah, Enoch, Moses and all the holy prophets. … The Father has never dealt with man directly and personally since the fall, and he has never appeared except to introduce and bear record of the Son. …
In giving revelations our Savior speaks at times for himself; at other times for the Father, and in the Father’s name, as though he were the Father, and yet it is Jesus Christ, our Redeemer who gives the message. So, we see, in Doctrine and Covenants 29:1, that he introduces himself as “Jesus Christ, your Redeemer,” but in the closing part of the revelation [verse 42] he speaks for the Father, and in the Father’s name as though he were the Father, and yet it is still Jesus who is speaking, for the Father has put his name on him for that purpose. [see also, D&C 49: 5 and 28]
The words of Jehovah are the words of Elohim because they are of one mind, one purpose, and one reason. To me, they are closer than identical clones -- but like the closest clones, they are separate entities.
The Book of Mormon equates Christ with God. He is the Eternal Father (2 Ne. 26:12). Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (1 Ne. 19: 7, 10, & 13). It is God in the form of man who makes the atonement (Mosiah 13: 28, 34). Jesus is “the very Christ and the very God” (Mormon 3:20-21).
The following Hebrew names can all be applied to Jesus, although the term Elohim is sometimes reserved for the Father. Please note the difference between Lord versus LORD and God versus GOD in the Old Testament of the King James Bible, as indicated below:
I. Common Old Testament Forms
Elohim
Transliterated Hebrew letters: alhym
Pronounced: el-o-heem
Strong’s #430
King James Translation: God or Gods
Frequency of use: over 4,000 in KJV
Sample verse: Genesis 1:1
Eloahh
Transliterated Hebrew letters: alwhh
Pronounced: el-o-ahh
Strong’s #433
King James Translation: God (singular version of Elohim)
Frequency of use: over 50; used over 40 times in Job;
Sample verse: Job 4:17
Jehovah
Transliterated Hebrew letters: yhwh
Pronounced: yeh-ho-vah or ya-weh
Strong’s #3068
(Variant pronounced: yeh-ho-vee; used to avoid repetition of sounds; Strong’s #3069)
King James Translation: LORD or GOD; Old Testament name for Jesus;
Frequency of use: over 6,000 in KJV
Sample verse: Psalms 34:22
El
Transliterated Hebrew letters: al
Pronounced: ale
Strong’s #410
King James Translation: God
Frequency of term: over 200 in KJV
Sample verse: Exodus 34:6; LORD God = #3068 / #410
Adonai
Transliterated Hebrew letters: adny
Pronounced: adon-ay
Strong’s #136
King James Translation: Lord(s)
Frequency of term: over 400 in KJV
Sample verse: Psalms 71:16
II. Some Variant Forms in Old Testament
El-Elyon
King James Translation: The Most High God
Terms combined: #410 (see above) and #5945 (not listed)
Sample verse: Genesis 14:20
El-Shaddai
King James Translation: The Almighty God
Terms combined: #410 (see above) and #7706 (not listed)
Sample verse: Genesis 14:20
Jehovah – Elohim
King James Translation: LORD God
Terms combined: #3068 and #430
Frequency of term: over 1500 in KJV
Sample verse: Genesis 2:18
Adonai – Jehovah
King James Translation: Lord GOD
Terms combined: #136 and #3069
Sample verse: Deut. 3:24
See clearly by understanding the names of GOD, the object of whom we give worship.
Recommended article by Jeffery R. Holland: The Only True God and Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent.
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8 comments:
...or McConkie is just wrong here.
... not the whole issue.
Oh, by the way, McConkie is one of my all-time favorites. I study him often.
Well said. This actually clarifies a couple things for me. Thanks.
I'll go for McConkie is just wrong here, Mr. Stapley. This is the same guy that promised Pres. McKay he wouldn't come out with a second edition of the ridiculous, self-promoting, and pompous book, Mormon Doctrine. But upon McKay's deathbed he conveniently forgot and, more than likely, with his father in laws' permission, JFSmith, he ran down to the publisher and told them to print away.
I, too, have studied McConkie, Mr. Faux. Most of his stuff is a regurgitation of his previous writings, only in slightly different phraseology. And much of his doctrine is wrong. Unfortunately, McConkie didn't have a Brigham Young-like Priesthood Leader during his day, much like Orson Pratt did, wherein he would be corrected immediately. Therefore, he became our generation's favorite authority and many false doctrines have slipped in. No big deal, it will all be straightened out, but when someone touts McConkie like this it shows their lack of reading beyond the 1960's/1970's.
As to the subject at hand, we did not worship the Son prior to his resurrection. But since his resurrection we do because he took the place of the Father to finish out everything, for his personal growth toward being a Father himself.
It's a progression of sorts, to godhood, a phase all of us will need to pass through in order to become like our Father (which level we never will attain to at the same time...another false doctrine by McConkie.)
When Pres. Hinckely died, it was not an end but a progression to his next priesthood calling. The next in line was Pres. Monson. So the same goes with all callings in the eternities, as well as with the gods.
Thank you for your time.
Chase, thanks for visiting and commenting, but I have to disagree with you on any number of issues.
The most important disagreement is your claim that "we did not worship the Son prior to his resurrection." Latter-day Saints equate Jesus with Jehovah, and there are any number of scriptures in the Old Testament that say Jehovah should be worshipped, such as"
Psalms 99:5
5 Exalt ye the LORD [Jehovah] our God, and worship at his footstool; for he is holy.
I am sorry. I do NOT follow your argument that "much of his doctrine is wrong," and then shortly after you say, "Therefore, he became our generation's favorite authority and many false doctrines have slipped in." So, if he was off-base, then how did he become our generation's favorite authority? I just don't follow the logic.
I love McConkie. I have read most of his writings and talks. I don't always agree with him, but I don't believe in infallibility either. I consider him a great scholarly contributor. His "Messiah" series is fantastic. I found very little redundant in him, except he would testify of Christ over and over again, something he was supposed to do. His testimony of Christ was as strong as any Apostle's in the Church. His last Conference talk was absolutely amazing.
So, let me be clear, I am NOT one to castigate McConkie. We will just have to disagree and leave it at that.
Well, I know we teach that Jehovah was a pre-existent Christ NOW, but did we always believe that? Of course not. This belief only came in during the 1880's. In fact, it was F.D. Richards who said it in a General Conference talk in 1885 and it just kind of stuck. Then Talmage made it concrete when he came out with Jesus the Christ and Articles of Faith.
But since you are playing scriptural roulette on this subject, which I find belittling to me, I will provide you with a few scriptures that I suggest you read, not browse. There are many many more and if you would like I can send them to you.
Firstly, Jehovah, it is believed, is the God of the Old Testament, or the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, which signifies the covenant He made with these three.
Acts 3:13, 22-23; Deut 18:15,18; Ex 3:6,15-16; Psalms 2 and Acts 13:33; Isaiah 49:7; 51 (whole chap); John 1:21-23; John 5:46-47; JSH 1:40; 1 Nephi 10:4,5
Now in the words of Christ himself:
3 Nephi 16:10-12; 20:12, 19-23, 25-29, 46
And more modern day, via D&C:
D&C 136: 21,37; 132:33; D&C 109 (whole section)
DHC 4:256; 5:94,127
And some quotes:
"God, then, the God of the Bible, who is called Jehovah, the person who manifested Himself to Israel as Jehovah, is an individual, a personality, and He made man in His image and His likeness. Now, if we are the children of God, and if Jesus Christ is the Son of God, we can upon that reasoning understand something about what God is like, for there is an eternal principle in heaven and on earth, that every seed begets of its kind, every seed brings forth in its own likeness and character.”
(Charles W. Penrose, Journal of Discourses, 26 vols. [London: Latter-day Saints' Book Depot, 1854-1886], 26: 21.)
"The people now-a-days profess to be very enlightened and they say, "Don't be so superstitious as to believe the Bible;" and the idea of Jesus being sacrificed for the sins of the world is ridiculed by many. They say, "Oh, don't have any such ideas, be more liberal, be as we are;" and I heard of one man who said he would not believe in, worship, nor acknowledge a God who would command a man to sacrifice his only son, as Abraham was called to sacrifice Isaac. We Latter-day Saints are just so unwise and foolish as to believe that the Lord Almighty required this at the hands of Abraham; and He did not tell Abraham that he would have that ram ready in the bushes. He said, "Have you confidence in me, my son Abraham?" "Yes," said Abraham. "Well, I will prove you. Bring up your son Isaac to Mount Moriah, build an altar there, place the wood on the altar and bind your son and place him on the altar and sacrifice him to me, and this will prove whether you have faith in me or not." The sacrifice was offered and accepted, and the Lord provided a way whereby Isaac could live. We are just so foolish, unwise and short-sighted, and so wanting in philosophy that we actually believe God told Abraham to do this very thing.
Who is that God? He is my Father, He is your Father; we are His offspring."
(Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 26 vols. [London: Latter-day Saints' Book Depot, 1854-1886], 13: 236.)
"We obey the Lord, Him who is called Jehovah, the Great I AM, I am a man of war, Eloheim, etc. We are under many obligations to obey Him."
(Journal of Discourses, 26 vols. [London: Latter-day Saints' Book Depot, 1854-1886], 12: 99 - 100.)
"“…let us plead the justice of our cause; trusting in the arm of Jehovah, the Eloheim, who sits enthroned in the heavens; that peradventure He may give as the victory…”
(Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 vols., introduction and notes by B. H. Roberts [Salt Lake City: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1932-1951], 5: 94.)
How's that for scriptural roulette?
There are many more scriptures, of course, but my post has exceeded its bounds.
But let me conclude. We did not worship Christ before the resurrection because he was not Jehovah. We do now because he has taken Jehovah's place on the throne.
I understand completely what we teach now. My point is that the scriptures don't back, nor did the early brethren, that Jehovah was Christ. But that's ok. We've had to move more mainstream Christain in order for us not to be so persecuted. It will all be fixed one day, and it's my opinion it will be the day of great purging of the Saints. Perhaps the doctrines we re-introduce will be the tool. But I don't know.
Thanks for reading and having the chat. Take care.
Chase:
First of all, thank you for spending the time to give a thorough response. The good news is that we agree that Jesus is worshipped and should be worshipped. Our disagreement revolves around some historical points.
Latter-day Saints believe in continuing revelation for good reason. Theological ideas and understanding need to evolve over time. Joseph Smith learned over time, bit by bit, line upon line.
Frankly, I have never believed the claim that Joseph at age 14 walked away from his first vision with a thorough and complete resolution of all the traditional problems of the trinity. He was 14. He was communicating with an infinite God. How could something like that revelation happen without Joseph having to ponder it for years?
In any case, your comments reminded me of Tom Alexander's (1980) paper, "The Reconstruction of Mormon Doctrine: From Joseph Smith to Progressive Theology," Sunstone 5 : 24-33. He is a respected BYU historian, and he directed the Charles Redd Center for many years. His paper and his classic book: Mormonism in Transition argue that theological ideas evolve over time. This is NOT big news.
In any case, your last comment proves that theological ideas about the Godhead are complex. I am NOT going to pretend that I can resolve them or that I can convince you. It is because there are complexities that we have (and VERY much need) modern Apostles. We believe in continuing revelation and it is necessary.
In that context, I recommend reading Gordon B. Hinckley's "We testify of Christ," which is a sentimental talk, since it was one of his last. He clearly equated Jesus with Jehovah.
Again, it is great to have MODERN Apostles and MODERN revelation to guide the inevitable ambiguities that arise as we toss scriptures back and forth. Are they THE final answer? They are for the Church as a whole, but ultimately each individual must reach her or his own spiritual resolution.
I do NOT completely buy into the argument of some historians, such as Grant Palmer, that early LDS notions of God the Father and Christ were merged. I am more persuaded by Joseph Smith himself:
Joseph Smith (Nauvoo, June 16, 1844), History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 474
I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods. It has been preached by the Elders for fifteen years. …I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage… .
I do want to show to others who might read these comments that there are good scriptural reasons for equating Jesus with Jehovah. I have chosen these two quotes because they are relatively unambiguous:
Date:April 3, 1836, Place:Kirtland, Ohio
To:Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery
D&C 110: 3-4
1 THE veil was taken from our minds, and the eyes of our understanding were opened.
2 We saw the Lord standing upon the breastwork of the pulpit, before us; and under his feet was a paved work of pure gold, in color like amber.
3 His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
4 I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father.
One would have to make a large interpretive SPIN to say the Jehovah in the passage above is anything other than Jesus.
The same can be said for the following:
Mosiah 3:8
8 And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother shall be called Mary.
Jehovah (Christ) was the creator from the beginning.
Again, Chase, thanks for reading and commenting. I appreciate your diverse ideas.
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